My guest on this episode is the gracious Joey Cardella. We discuss his career in life coaching, what behavioral science is, how to create flow triggers, and the domino effect influences can have.
Watch Full Episodes: Youtube Channel
Follow Our Guest!
https://www.instagram.com/thisnakedvoice/?hl=en
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/this-naked-voice/id1509876877
CHAPTERS:
1:29 Domino Influencing & Defining Success
15:20 Coaching is Life Changing
38:58 Behavior Science & Flow Triggers
55:51 Outro / Get in touch w/ Joey
FOLLOW ON SOCIALS
TIKTOK - https://www.tiktok.com/@jasimon.co
Instagram - www.instagram.com/jasimon.co
Twitter - https://twitter.com/jasimonco
Facebook - www.facebook.com/jasimon.co
Website - www.jordanasimon.com
Joey: [00:00:00] That's a, a good place to start. Uh, comparison, uh, there's the, the saying comparison's the thief of joy. Mm-hmm. , which a hundred percent is because those people with all those followers and all that money, like you just don't know how they're actually feeling about what they're doing. Yeah. And how they wake up every day.
Joey: I'm sure I'm, um, are feeling great and some are not. But like the question comes back to what is the impact that you wanna have? What do you wanna achieve? What do you wanna accomplish? Does it matter that you are compensated greatly for it with money, or does it matter that someone says, Hey man, thanks so much for letting me know I could do something different with my life.
Joey: And if one person says that, is that okay?
Joey: Hello?
Jordan: Hello, and I'm your [00:01:00] host, Jordan Simon. This week we're talking to one of my, uh,
Jordan: Hey, it's your host, Jordan Simon. This week we're talking to a big inspiration of mine. Raquel Boris. She's the regional branding and marketing manager for New American funding. Uh, she hosts women that shred, uh, weekly talk show. Um, she has rocked the boat on YouTube. Uh, she's a great,
Joey: why'd you wanna start in the first place?
Joey: The podcast?
Jordan: Yeah. Mainly cause I just like talking to people. Um, and I've always found it interesting to hear people's stories. Um, and I, the way I kind of phrased it was, you know, when I was growing up, it was like I didn't know what I wanted to do when I got older. Um, and it just seemed like everybody that was successful, you know, that you look at kind of had a plan.
Jordan: But then the more you talk to people, the more you find out [00:02:00] that. , it's not really the case. Like people try different things, learn as they go, um, and that's kind of how they get there. Um, you know, I talked a little bit today in social media about finding your passion and it's like a lot of times it's not through like searching.
Jordan: You just start to win stuff and that's how you found out what you like and what you know. Mm-hmm. what you're passionate about. So for me it was, Hey, let me do this cause I like talking to people and then if I share it, maybe it'll help somebody, um, you know, in their journey. That was really the. Premise behind it.
Jordan: Yeah,
Joey: I think that's great, man. I think there's a lot of pressure, especially now more than ever, as, as more, more people have access to reach to more audience. And we're seeing, let's say the average, the average Joe have potential to go viral and all of a sudden have a big audience. So there's like, oh look, I could, I could have a big impact.
Joey: And so, More people are like, well, what's my purpose? [00:03:00] And, and if I don't have an impact in my twenties, if I don't have an impact by the time I'm 30, 35, if I don't build a business, if I don't become a, you know, really wealthy, if I don't change the world, if I then what am I doing, then, then what does my life mean?
Joey: And it's like, uh, well chill out. Like settle down . It's okay. There's time. Well, and not just there's time, but maybe. You're not here to have a massive worldwide impact, and that's okay. Maybe not everyone, not everyone can have a massive worldwide impact. It would be chaos. It'd be absolute chaos. Yeah. Maybe you're here to, to put out a couple podcasts that impact, you know, 10, 15, 20 people and those people go impact a few more people and that makes the.
Joey: Just a little bit better, a little bit more peaceful, and that's wonderful. And can we be okay with that? You know, I don't think [00:04:00] that the scale of our impact is the importance as long as in the process I, that I feel an integrity, that I feel at peace, that I feel good about what I'm doing, and that I'm not actively making the world a a, an intentionally making the world a worse place.
Jordan: No, that's very profound. There's like, I have like 10 questions just based on what you just said, but I think o, one of the things I've been trying to do too is how do we redefine what success means? Because I think a lot of people, like you said, put it on, well, how many followers do I have? Or how much money do I make?
Jordan: But I. To me it's, it's more about that inner piece that you talked about, like being centered. Mm-hmm. . So how does some, how do you change your mindset to say, well, let me look at this differently to say, you know, success for me might mean something different. Like, just at a fundamental level, how do you even change your mindset around that?
Joey: You know, that's, that's like a, a really common question and it's, for some reason the answer is still really elusive. I mean, for me, and like, not like, oh, I, I have [00:05:00] the answers. I don't, I don't have the answer to this one, but like, what I'm recognizing is me and I, and so many other people look outside for success, they look for what is the image of success.
Joey: I, I think of, oh, that person is successful. So that's what success looks like. Oh, that person is successful based on how much money they've made, how much impact they've had, uh, what their family looks like, uh, whatever, whatever I make up about them. That's what success is. And the thing is, it's, it's never the same.
Joey: Yeah. Whether this person has 10 million or 1 million or. $50,000 or they have a family that loves them or just pretends to love them, or, you know, we, we don't know what the story is for any person. We make up like, that person's successful. And like, why focus on success? Like it, why not impact, why not meaning, why not?[00:06:00]
Joey: Um, fulfillment. Why is success? The word we use? Like, it can mean anything to anyone. If I, if I go through my life. You know, and, and I, I have a, an impact on school children, but I don't ever make enough money to, let's say, retire by the time I want to, and I have to, and I struggle at the end of my life. Am I a success?
Joey: Uh, I don't know. Am I, am I happy? Am I content? Like is happiness, success is, is like be able to retire by age something, by 65 success. Like I think that's totally up to the individual to define it. They have to say, what does it mean to me? Not that's what I want. And setting the bar at a reasonable level is so important.
Jordan: Wow. You've upended the way I think about it. [00:07:00] Well say more. What? Well, cuz like you said, cuz I've been asking that question like, well how do we define success? But it's never gonna be a universal answer because like you said, what success looks like for me may be different than my wife or to you or to anybody.
Jordan: Cuz uh, even if you look at it strictly on how much money someone makes, everybody still has a different figure in their head of what successful.
Joey: Sure. Someone can be really content with having, you know, 50 grand in the bank. Mm-hmm. , but some people who have 5 million in the bank be like, I need more, I need more.
Joey: I need more. It's a success is like a feeling that someone has. Yeah. That generate from within.
Joey: No, I like that. What, what comes up for you when you think of success?
Jordan: I don't think I know the. So I think to me it's kinda, the [00:08:00] way I focus on it is I think about when I get to the end of my life, I don't wanna look back and have regrets. And it seems like those regrets are gonna come from things that, you know, I didn't try or I didn't put myself out there.
Jordan: I didn't think that, you know, uh, maybe I was afraid to do, because if you worry about outside influences or other people's thoughts, I've really started to just think about, you know, what are the things that make me happy and make me want to get out of bed every morning? And like, how do I do more of those things?
Jordan: And um, so it hasn't really been, I mean, obviously financially you want to be stable, um, but it's not that you have to have. In excess. Um, so I, like, I enjoy the, the work that I do now. I enjoy, um, connecting with employees and other, other people. Um, so it's, I don't know. Cause I define it in a way, but then I say that I am, that, like I define it as being [00:09:00] content, being fulfilled in what you're doing.
Jordan: I say, well, I am fulfilled, but then I also would not call myself successful. Hmm. .
Joey: Cause obviously, so what's missing? What's missing?
Joey: I,
Jordan: well, I think the problem is outside comparisons. So when I, when you ask me that question, I start to think about, well, who do I find successful and what do they have that I don't?
Joey: Right. So, yeah, good question. What are the answers?
Jordan: Yeah, I think
Joey: it's monetary. And so what do you think that money that they're, that the money they have, what's that money gonna give you that you don't have right now?
Joey: Mm.
Jordan: A sense of pride that I achieved something cuz it's, it's not actually gonna change like, my lifestyle at all. Or, you know, we're already pretty flexible in what we're able to do. So I think it's more of a pride thing when comparing to other people.
Joey: Okay. So that [00:10:00] there is a good piece right there. Right.
Joey: So I, what you're saying is when I get that money, that will be the sign that I've achieved something. But you see, even there, you're putting, you're putting like an external measure on your version of achievement or accomplishment. Yeah. So like the question becomes, what do you wanna achieve? What do you wanna accomplish?
Joey: Now we're in 20 years and 10 years in 50 years. What do you want that to be?
Jordan: Yeah. And I think, uh, there's a, I think there's a second part to it. Cause I don't know that it's all I, I like, I look up to people that have influence, so like that are able to impact others and, but then we get back to the whole numbers thing around it.
Jordan: So like, , everybody wants to feel like a lot of people have been impacted by what they do or what they say. Um, but, but I, I'm not as worried about the numbers cuz like I haven't tried it [00:11:00] yet, so I'm okay putting in the work to get there. Um, but I do think that there's some piece of, you know, um, and I think I, for whatever reason, I think it always comes back to like a younger generation.
Jordan: So, My businesses are in, uh, the trade services. Mm-hmm. . So the narrative around, you know, that you have to go get a formal education or do things a certain way. Um, one of my missions is to try and get to, to oth young people or even older people that maybe are looking for a career change and. , let them know the, the idea that putting in, you know, a hard day's work or these blue collar type jobs can be satisfying, you can be creative and it, and it can be a rewarding career path.
Jordan: So getting that message out there is part of the mission of what I would consider being successful. But I think a lot of it goes back to external factors of, well, I look at these people, they have X number of followers, X amount of money, and then [00:12:00] that's how I should compare when maybe I just need to change my metrics.
Joey: I mean, to me that's, that's a, a good place to start. Uh, comparison, uh, there's the, the saying comparison's, the thief of joy. Mm-hmm. , which a hundred percent is because those people with all those followers and all that money, like you just don't know how they're actually feeling about what they're doing.
Joey: Yeah. And how they wake up every day. Some Sure. Um, are feeling great and some are not. , but like the question comes back to what is the impact that you wanna have? What do you wanna achieve? What do you wanna accomplish? Does it matter that you are compensated greatly for it with money, or does it matter that someone says, Hey man, thanks so much for letting me know I could do something different with my life.
Joey: And if one person says that, is that okay?
Jordan: You know, I know that you are in [00:13:00] coaching whenever you talk to people and like you're doing for me now. Do you, is it important to kind of write out specifically what those metrics around defining success would be like, should I have a template of, you know, what would actually meet my standards?
Joey: I think it's never a bad idea.
Joey: To, to, to start writing down some ideas. Okay, here's, here's some baselines. And look, targets can always change and that's great, but to have some, some star on the horizon that I'm aiming for is really helpful. And then to understand why that star, why not this one? , that's also really helpful to know which way I'm pointing and why is everything when navigating [00:14:00] otherwise, who, who knows where the hell I'm gonna add up and uh, right?
Joey: And so like, you know, okay, here, here's my goal. Cool. Boom. Now it's up there. All right. I can see it every day. And I'm reminding myself, this is where I'm going and this is why. Now, like I've got this compass and everyone I talk to, I'm not thinking, okay, how do I grow my followers? How do I, I'm just thinking, is this, does this fit my purpose today?
Joey: Does this, is this who I'm, is this who I'm serving? Is this how I'm, is this how I'm showing up my best? Am I pointing the right direction? And not every day I will, but then I get to orient again. Here's where I'm going. And if that's no longer where I want to go, I get to say, okay, where do I wanna go next?
Joey: And why? But I get to check in with my heart based on my internal world, not based on what everybody else is doing. [00:15:00] Yeah,
Jordan: I think that, but I think that's the hard part, just it's human nature. Right? When you're, when you're looking at the. Other people. Um, right. But I like that. Cause I, I think there's a fear of, well, if I say that this is my goal, then I, then I'm unable to change it.
Jordan: Like, it's not necessarily written in stone. Right. Like, we can change those things. Right. Uh, I like the way you, you put that, so how did. , how did you get to a point where you, and, and maybe you still don't know, but how did you know that, like coaching and helping others was what you wanted to do? Was there something that happened in your career or as you were younger, but what pointed you in this direction?
Joey: About 10 years ago, uh, a friend invited me to a men's weekend, an intensive weekend, and I didn't know anything about the weekend. He just said he got a lot out of it the year before. I said, sure. and I went to this weekend, it was put on through the Mankind Project and it was a really powerful weekend for [00:16:00] me.
Joey: I was about 29 when I went through and really not sure what I was doing at that point in my life. What I wanted to do in the next couple years. I didn't really trust myself about the decisions I was making and went through a number of powerful processes and had a really strong community of. From that weekend and sometimes these transformative weekends, they can be really powerful, but then people go back and they go back to their lives and there's no follow up or there's very little follow up.
Joey: What was great about this weekend was when I went back to where I was living in Idaho at the time, a lot of the men who were living there had been staffing that weekend or working that weekend, and so I got to sit in circle with these men every week. . And whereas, you know, there was a bit of a maybe a power dynamic on the weekend where they were, you know, leading and I was going through the weekend as a, as a participant in the men's circle.
Joey: Afterwards, every week [00:17:00] everyone's was equal, even though they had many more years of experience. Every man would check in, how am I feeling? What's going on? What am I struggling with this week? What am I celebrating this week? And everyone would get to support everyone else. Ask questions. , uh, to, to, to challenge them like, well, you said this, but like what I'm hearing underneath is this, is that true?
Joey: And, and I was profoundly moved seeing men open up to each other every week to go deep into their own inner worlds. And I got to do a lot more excavation of my inner landscape. And in the process, I noticed I got to support other. in a really powerful way, and I was asking questions that were just coming up intuitively.
Joey: And some of the men who I really admired and respected were like, you know, Joey, you should, you should do more of this. You should, you know, come, [00:18:00] come and staff these weekends and step into some leadership positions. I was like, no, no, no, no. That's not, I don't wanna do that. That's no. But for years, that was what was happening, and eventually I started staffing more weekends and stepping into more leadership and it's all volunteer based, everything.
Joey: you actually, you pay to staff these weekends. But I found that over time, I just got so curious about what are people actually going through that they're not showing us, especially men who hold so much inside, who don't show their vulnerabilities, who don't have deep conversations or connections with other men or anyone in general.
Joey: And so after a number of years, I, I decided this is something I wanna pursue. Uh, and I looked into mental health counseling degrees and what I realized for me is I didn't, for, for me, like mental health counseling and therapy is really designed to work with people who are, let's say, dysfunctional and bring them up to [00:19:00] functional.
Joey: And I really wanted to get into something where was working with people who are functional and moving into optimal. And what I see in general through. All my travels in my life is that a lot of people who are struggling in the world, who go to therapy, they're not actually dysfunctional. They're dealing with very human problems, very normal things that we've pathologized and so they go to therapy thing and something's wrong with me.
Joey: Something's wrong with me. Well, no, it's actually very human what you're dealing with, we just don't talk about it. And so there, there's nothing dysfunctional about you. It's normal, like let's just talk about it, understand what's going on, and let's get you into an optimal state, but let's normalize what you're going through.
Joey: There's nothing wrong.
Jordan: That's awesome. How important is it then for someone to find, whether it be a coach, a mentor, but I guess just specifically they have to have, you have to have [00:20:00] someone else that you can open up with, right? To at least get those thoughts and those emotions out.
Joey: I'll say this for me, it has been in.
Joey: Absolutely invaluable. Not just having like, like a, a one-on-one relationship with a coach that I really trust, but also having a group that, that I check in with. I have one that I check in with twice a month. Um, but every. , everyone in the world who, who used to use the word success, but any, everyone's at the top of their game in the world where it's a Bill Gates or Michael Jordan, or you know, some of the top tennis Serena, William, Venus Williams, they've all had coaches.
Joey: Not just like a sports coach, but a mindset coach. Someone to help them like regulate their emotions. Visualize everyone who's been at the top of their game, has had a coach.
Joey: It's not just for people who you know, are, [00:21:00] are thinking, oh, this is, this is the kind of woowoo. Maybe I'll, I'll improve a little bit. No, coaches have impacted people at the top of their games and helped them stay at the top and do even better and impact the world in profound ways. Yeah, I think
Jordan: at least myself, think about coaching a lot of times as someone that's going to, um, maybe teach you a skill or walk you through, um, improvement in a certain area.
Jordan: But the more, you know, we've, we talked a little bit previously, but more so today, it's like, um, a lot of times other people have a really good insight as to what your strength and your weaknesses. . Um, and I think that one of the benefits of, of finding somebody like that could be that, you know, through those conversations, someone kinda like you had with those, with those other men that said, Hey Joey, you're really good at this.
Jordan: This is what you should pursue. Um, because we, it, it can be hard sometimes to [00:22:00] identify our own strengths and weaknesses.
Joey: It can be, it can be hard to own our strengths, that that's what we call, what I call what's in shadow. Mm, what's in shadow is something that I'm unaware of. I'm unconscious of, it's in the dark, and so that could be stuff that, uh, is not so nice about me.
Joey: Some of the things that are holding me back, the bad things, but it could also be the good things, those unconscious beliefs. So, yeah, that this is a big piece around, I don't recognize that I'm good at this. That's in shadow.
Joey: Where, where to go from here, . Well, that was,
Jordan: it's uh, because I, um, even through these conversations with people I've started to, you kinda get these light bulb moments, and that's where I think that someone like yourself is really invaluable, is that, Hey, let me [00:23:00] sh help you shine a light into those areas.
Jordan: Because I was talking about there is a fear of success sometimes for people, myself included. And it can be small successes, but it's almost not necessarily imposter syndrome, but almost like why you almost feel guilty about the reward or having good things happen to you. And I just wonder how do you get people to open up enough to figure out those things about themselves?
Jordan: Like whenever you're counseling or coaching somebody,
Joey: How do you get people to open up to, to kind of see the truth about themselves, is what you're asking?
Jordan: Yeah, because I, it, it, it feels, so those things themselves are scary, but then also talking about my insecurities around them would be scary as well
Joey: to, to open up a to a coach you're saying to anybody?
Joey: Yeah.
Jordan: Yeah.
Joey: Well, the only reason a relationship with a coach works is, is is based on trust. Yeah. And [00:24:00] so, I wouldn't work with a coach I don't trust or who I'm not gonna decide to trust. Can you hear the leaf blowers or is that just me? Okay, great. , it's like, of course they show up when I'm recording a podcast.
Joey: Um, and, and sometimes, sometimes I think I, I wanna know like, oh, I definitely can trust this person before I'm gonna open up. That's, that's, People don't, just don't choose to be vulnerable. Like I have to know, I can trust this person, but sometimes that's what vulnerability is, is deciding to trust before I know that the trust can, is there?
Joey: Yeah. The question is what's on the other side of deciding to trust here? What if I ch what's on the other side of, of choosing to trust this person? Yeah. And what's that?
Jordan: Sorry, I keep interrupting.
Joey: No, of, of making a different decision, right, because typical. I'm not gonna open up to maybe [00:25:00] my friends, maybe my partner, maybe my, my coworkers about all these things that I'm holding onto.
Joey: But what am I, if I choose to open up to this person who I'm thinking about hiring as my coach, what's on the other side of that? What might I gain?
Jordan: what is, what, what's your answer to that? So, like, that, that'd be my question is like, what's that process look like? If, if someone does open up, if they do figure these things out about themselves, what, what do they gain from it typically?
Joey: W what do you think you would gain by, by opening up, I guess throw it right back
Jordan: at you.
Jordan: That's good. No, I think probably just a, at least a realization of what, uh, subconscious things are holding me back or, um, limiting my success. So I guess, you know, just at the base level, it's just a, a better understanding of myself.
Joey: Yeah. Maybe some honesty about what's happening. Yeah. [00:26:00] How about some actual expression of what I've been repressing?
Joey: Hmm.
Jordan: Do you think that? Uh, and maybe it's, I don't, like you said, men are bad about it, but the we're, we can be unaware of even what we've been repressing. Oh, of
Joey: course. that, I mean, big time. Okay. That's, that's one of the biggest challenges that men face is they don't even know what they've been repressing.
Joey: They just, and they, and then they're not even aware of what's happening in their bodies. Repress emotion. Like anger, like fear, like sadness. Well, anger is one of the few things that men feel okay to express, but e even, you know, a lot of the quote unquote nice guys won't express anger. So they repress anger.
Joey: Mm-hmm. . And so we hold these emotions which are actually just their energy that's moving in our bodies and we [00:27:00] hold onto 'em and we, we then like don't wanna feel that. And so we suppress all this feeling in our bodies and it just stays stag. For weeks, months, years. And we have no sense of then what's happening within us, what are we actually feeling, and it, it cuts off from joy as well and cuts off from our intuition.
Joey: And all these tools are so essential to our full experience of being human. We can't just reside in our minds and relying on logic. That's not, that's not being fully human. We cannot kick if we have children, we cannot connect with our children based on logic alone, cannot connect with our partners based on logic alone.
Joey: If we get irredeemably lost on a hike in the woods, there's no trails anywhere. You can't rely on [00:28:00] logic alone to get out. Sometimes you need to trust like, all right, what's my intuition? Tell me which way do I. And some people say, no, no logic alone. Well, there are situations in life where logic fails and intuition has to kick in and not having a sense of that.
Joey: It, it, it's like, it's like not having a compass.
Jordan: I'm definitely guilty of the, it has to be a logical resolution. You know, you do it with kids, spouse, employees, every, I mean, I have definitely been, well, that's not a logical, um, response or, you know, solution to that problem, but like you said, not every problem necessarily needs that as the, as the remedy.
Joey: There. There is a time and place for Logic and it, and it's not every. It's knowing when to employ logic and when to employ [00:29:00] intuition, and when to employ my emotional connection and, and having a sense for this, but not having all the tools at my disposal, then I'm, I'm not fully equipped. . I
Jordan: wonder now that we're talking about it, and again, one of those light bulb moments, I wonder if it's more of a defense mechanism.
Jordan: Like I use logic as the, no, we have to use that as the basis of our discussion or it's to solve the problem, but it's because I don't want to use the emotions. And why wouldn't
Joey: you want to use the emotions? Yeah,
Jordan: because probably cuz I've been repressed 'em for so long, I don't know what's gonna come out.
Jordan: Hmm. You know, or maybe you show weakness or maybe you show, um, a lack of understanding. And I think especially for, um, I don't, I don't know that it's necessarily men, but you, you don't wanna show that weakness or like, you want to seem smart to other people, or you wanna seem like you have all the answers.
Jordan: So to not, you know, if you base everything off this one thing that I feel like I'm good at, then I can manipulate situations better. Like, if it's all logic, I can manipulate. [00:30:00]
Joey: That's, that's definitely a big piece for a lot of men. And you hit another thing too, is so many men just don't feel good enough as they are.
Joey: Mm. And they feel like they have to constantly prove themselves that their intellect or that they're, they're doing
Jordan: well. I wonder if that goes back to like, whenever I talk about success at the beginning and it's like, well, I'm looking at these other factors. It's like, well, I have to prove so. and that's, that's the definition of success.
Jordan: So then I'm trying to get linear here. If you can at a small scale start to, um, you know, I don't know what the word I'm trying to use is uses, um, like peel back the layers and start to understand that forward into emotion to solve small problems, right? You can start to do 'em for bigger problems. Your ambitions, your passions, your, your goals in life, and you talked a little bit about [00:31:00] all the tools available to you, like that those feelings can mask some of that.
Jordan: What, when you say that, what do you mean?
Joey: Well, I'm saying if we repress our emotions, we, we don't have those tools available to us to help us make decisions that can prove really. . If we need to make a big decision about, all right, do we, do we work with this client or not? Well, on paper they look great, but when I met them in person, like how did they show up?
Joey: What did I feel when they interacted with my team? Like what did I feel? What, how did my team react? Did I notice their body language shift? Did what? What did I actually feel in the room when I was present with the client? Because on paper, oh, it's a, you know, they check all the boxes, but what are those things that aren't on paper, if I'm unaware of that?[00:32:00]
Joey: Well, I, I'm just not showing up fully in my experience, and it could lead to really disastrous consequences.
Jordan: I'm trying to look at it in the reverse as well. So like, what does someone. I think sometimes I focus on, well, what do I look like on paper? But it may be just as important to, well, how does someone interpret, you know who I am when we're in the same room together? Mm-hmm. does unlocking those, those inner feelings, thoughts, do you think that that manifests itself through someone being more, whether it be confident or.
Jordan: Maybe even just approachable and making them better in those situations, like is, is, are those suppressed feelings? What can make us give someone else a bad vibe? What do you think? I don't know. Just to, I'm just [00:33:00] talking out loud now. Yeah. I mean, ,
Joey: my sense, the women I've met, the, the, the really in tune women I've met, they can pick up on, on.
Joey: How men are holding themselves when they're covering up something, when they're, when they feel confident and empowered and when they're hiding those, the really int tune women, the type of women I wanna be with, they can pick up on that stuff and they can put on, they can pick up on when a man's putting on a show, when he is just wearing a mask.
Joey: That's a good point.
Jordan: Is it just because they're more in touch with those emotions, like it's that simple?
Joey: Yeah. I don't think it's a given that women just are, I think, and, and maybe some women will disagree with me, but I, I think men have [00:34:00] definitely been trained out of that feeling for sure. And women have been allowed to, in their experience, feel into their intuition a lot more.
Joey: Yes. Um, but again, they have, I think over time women have to have to also develop it and really tune into it because someone will, will, again, they'll go to guys over and over who are, who are not in tune or empowered or centered and grounded. So it just depends on the woman, of course.
Jordan: And some are better at that than others.
Jordan: Right. Like the identifiers. Of course. Yeah, of
Joey: course. But again, the point is for men to really be fully in their human experience, to not just rely on logic alone, to really tap into their intuition, into their emotions, to give them the full tool set to operate in this world, to relate to others, to connect with others, to make, uh, decisions from a totally integrated place.
Jordan: Yeah, I mean, it [00:35:00] seems like, you know, People talk about in business, like, you know, people wanna work with, you know, a business, a brand they wanna work with a person that they feel like they know and they can trust. And it, I think a lot of that showing that vulnerability to others allows them to be more comfortable and feel like they know you.
Jordan: So I think when I ask the question of like, how, how does it help other people feel about you? Maybe it's just that, hey, this person's vulnerable with me, so that allows me to open up, um, you know, to them as well. So taking that first step of how I'm gonna show myself first, um, as a, as a show of, of trust or something to, to other people.
Jordan: Mm. Again, I'm just talking through these, uh, . You got me thinking deep.
Joey: Great man. And, and that's another thing that I really enjoy about the coaching process. Sometimes just speaking things out loud. Mm-hmm. is the way [00:36:00] people can process better, they process more efficiently. It's extraordinarily helpful.
Joey: And for some who go, wait, you said this, but earlier you said this, what did you mean? And. Having that, having someone to really listen deeply and poke and prod and challenge. Ooh, okay. That's a big part of how coaching can help disrupt old patterns.
Jordan: So with, with your style, and maybe it's every style of coaching, but, uh, cuz I'd kind of asked you before, like, well, what does someone, you know, what does it cost?
Jordan: What does the plan look like? What is this? But there's really not maybe a. Framework to it because of how, um, in depth and emotional it is, right? So I mean, if someone comes to you, there's an exploration process that has to happen first. It's not a go through these four steps and then
Joey: you're good. Mm-hmm.
Joey: no, not necessarily. I mean, [00:37:00] some, some coaches will have a process and, and it, it can yield similar results for certain people. Um, and yeah. And there's certain repeatable things that, that can be. . Um, I like to meet people where they're at. Sometimes that makes coaches seem generic. Oh, I just help people.
Joey: Okay. Uh, you know, I'm developing new processes all the time, depending on the nature of my clients. What are they dealing with? What are they struggling with? What are the patterns I'm seeing? Oh, here are some different things I can help them. Um, but to say like, I've got a pattern. I, I, I've got a process.
Joey: This will work. I think it's. Uh, I think it's really bold to, to, to claim that. Yeah. And yeah, there are certain things that will work, but I like to meet people where they're at. What are you struggling with? What do you want? What's in the way? And really meeting that person where they are and feeling into them.[00:38:00]
Joey: Understanding their personality is a big piece of it. Some people are really extroverted, really bombastic, and they really go-getters. Some people are really shy and introvert. the process is not gonna work the same for each of them. And there are certain things that will, there are certain ways we, uh, that dopamine works in our systems.
Joey: There are certain habits that, that can, uh, yield results based on how our brain chemistry works. So for me, it's, it's recognizing there are different personalities that I need to work with differently, but there are certain, uh, parts of our internal biology that I can leverage to yield similar results for each person as.
Joey: So utilizing science, psychology, and spirituality, that's the process that I use for my clients political levers.
Jordan: Yeah, I like that. And I feel like it's always nice to have things in threes for whatever reason. Like, Hey, , , there's three steps or three, uh, [00:39:00] pillars of it. Well, it's is. Science part of that, the standard things about like, like living healthy, you know, exercise, getting fresh airs, if that kind of stuff that, um, you know, is important to, to someone's,
Joey: well, those are, those are some of the like standard processes.
Joey: Some of the actions people can take, but also, , when we get into the depths of it, it's, it's utilizing technologies of flow and understanding. How does dopamine work in your system? How do you get the, the oxytocin and serotonin combinations to, to yield these results? And, and why does that matter? And how do you get it in ways that are actually longer lasting as opposed to the quick hits that you get from scrolling.
Joey: You can get dopamine hits all day long in your phone, but not actually what you want, not that sort of dopamine. So how do you get the ones that actually. Motivate you to, to reach your goals. And what about goal setting? Why is that even important? And understanding how that actually matches up to your biology.[00:40:00]
Joey: So going into those details are, are, are paramount.
Jordan: Yeah. No, that, that makes a lot of sense. How do you think that, you know, I know that you have a background in music and that might be a little bit more right brain, the creative side. Do you think that that lent itself, um, beneficial to tapping into this emotional side too, right?
Jordan: As opposed to maybe someone that's more analytical focused?
Joey: Uh, it's funny. Thanks for asking that. When I was younger, . I got into music cuz my family was into music. My uncle was a piano player and guitar player. And um, and I wanted to be a rockstar. I just wanted the attention. Hmm. So like in the high school, I was like, I was learning to play piano and guitar and I was like, I just wanted to be looked at.
Joey: I wanted to be adored. And so like, I, I practiced a fair amount, but I never, I never like loved practicing, so I never got amazing at anything. And I went to college for music and I was like, and I just had this, this sense. [00:41:00] I'm not really doing this because I love playing. I love the feeling it got to to be with others, playing music.
Joey: I, I like being in a group, but I never let myself go in the process of making music, I did it cuz I wanted the attention. Mm-hmm. And I fell outta love with music after college. I like stepped away from a, for a lot of years, almost a decade. . And then when I got to Portland, uh, back in 2016, I met some guys here who had a little music studio, little rehearsal space, invited me into play and I was like, no, no, no.
Joey: I don't really play music anymore. But I was teaching music at the time. That's where I got invited in by another teacher in the school. He's like, just come play. It'll be fine. And he was a good dude. So I was like, all right, I'll go in and I play with him a couple times, like, oh, it's fine. You know, we're jam.
Joey: but I brought a song and that I was working on, on a ukulele that I was teaching a kid. I just made the song up and they're like, you wrote this song? I was like, yeah. They're like, this is awesome, . I was like, really? And they're like, yeah, let's play [00:42:00] this song. And, and they just had so much fun playing the song I wrote.
Joey: I was like, huh, okay, next week I brought it in a different song and they loved it. And I was like, really? You? And, and they just, they created such a space for me to just bring creativity and over time, I then just started, we just started improvising in the studio, and for the first time in my life there was an open space for me to just release and let go and play and not feel afraid to make mistakes.
Joey: And, and all of a sudden I could just see stories open up in front of my eyes and I would sing and, and lyrics would come and I would play it. And I was like, this has never happened before. I was never the guy who would just make stuff up on the spot, but all of a sudden, All my emotions from the week would come flooding in and I would be singing them out and like yelling and screaming and, but they would come out in melodic form and the band was playing behind me and we were so in sync and I, I reached a total flow state in the studio and I was like, holy smokes.
Joey: [00:43:00] This is it. This is, this is what I always wanted music to be. And never knew it. And I would, you know, there were times I would cry in the studio after a song because I was like, that's what I needed. This is so important. . So that's the long answer to your question. Like, yes, for me, the music is, is intricately connected to my emotional body, and when I don't get to play, I feel stagnant and I get stuck.
Joey: And it's not the same playing by myself. Like there's something about being in sync with other, other musicians and like allowing that space for something to unfold and, and unpack and tapping into another realm and having that come in and letting it out. It's, it's, it's wonderful. It's a whole other world, whole other experience that I never experienced in my younger life.
Joey: But because I was able to tap into my emotional space, I was able to experience release and relief [00:44:00] and, you know, a, a sense of euphoria and ecstasy that I just never had before.
Jordan: It goes all from that freedom to make mistake.
Joey: and, and, and feeling held and seen and safe by mm-hmm. , by the, the two guys I was playing with.
Joey: They're just like, yeah, whatever you got, bring it. And they just had fun with me the whole time. It didn't matter what we sounded like as long as we were just playing together.
Joey: That's
Jordan: amazing. No, I, I, I'm thinking of ways to apply all the insight from that. CRE A, creating those spaces for whether it be employees or friends or family, creating that safe space that people can explore, make mistakes, I think is really powerful. But then also, is there something that, you know, I have pushed away that could help me get back into like a flow state like [00:45:00] that?
Jordan: Like for me growing up it was sports, which I don't really do anymore. Mostly because of the time, but um, I got kind of pushed away from it in college as well cuz there was too much pressure on it. And I became like so afraid of making mistakes. It's like, well I don't wanna do this anymore. Um, cuz yeah, like I wanted to be a professional athlete, which is hard when you're five 10.
Jordan: But, um, you know, I think that that that joy of things from your childhood is a way to tap into a lot of those, uh, emotions.
Joey: Yeah, I mean, you don't have to be a professional athlete to find that state,
Jordan: right? No, for sure. Cause I certainly think, like, I could probably get there again by just, but I think there's something about that camaraderie and doing it with a group, um, that, that lets you tap into it,
Joey: it makes it more enjoyable for me and like flow states are, are accessible to us, whether in groups or as an individual.
Joey: And the biggest thing. [00:46:00] Like there's, there's flow, there's like 22 different kind of flow triggers, and the, the point of a flow trigger is that it drives our attention into the present moment here and now. And an a huge element of getting into flow is that whatever we're engaged in, our, our focus is here.
Joey: We are not distracted. And whatever we're engaged in, the challenge level is, is high. Where we're not overwhelmed and our skills are just about that level, but the challenge is just higher than our skills. So we're just at that level of meeting the level of challenge and, and figuring out ways to solve it and overcome it.
Joey: So the challenge, the skills ratio is, is, is really important. Uh, so like, and, and there's whole books on flow if you wanna read more about it. Stephen Kotler has a whole bunch of great books on flow. To, to really, uh, round out your, your knowledge [00:47:00] about it. No, I appreciate
Jordan: that. Ha. Have, do you, are you able to apply that same, like now that you've been in it with the music, are you able to get into a flow state doing other things, whether it be work or, does that make sense?
Jordan: I'm,
Joey: I'm developing ways to get into flow more consistently in other realms, but music is still my, the, the main way I access it for myself and, and I can do it sometimes by myself in music, but it's in that band setting that's, it's most easily accessible. But yeah, I'm training myself up. How do I get to flow?
Joey: You know, when I'm working by myself, how am I not getting, oh, I'm distracting my phone's on my, my email's on I'm, I'm checking. I'm like, okay, here are the things I need to eliminate to do. To, to get back into flow. So yeah, it's, it's, it doesn't happen right away. There. There's a learn, there's a learning curve to get there.
Joey: Right.
Jordan: Do you have to, so we all have like tasks that we have to just do that aren't necessarily fun for you, as, do you have to kind [00:48:00] of clear those things as part of your getting rid of distractions in order to, to focus more clearly.
Joey: I think this is actually something that's really important. It's a good question, but what's really important is whatever I decide I'm gonna do, I calendar it in.
Joey: Mm. So, okay, this is the time when I'm gonna, uh, do work on my content for the week. Okay? This is the time when I'm gonna, uh, write my blogs. This is the time when I'm gonna, um, work on. Accounting, I, I don't know, whatever people need to do for, for the week, calendaring it in. So it's like, this is my task. And usually setting up the week ahead of time on a Sunday is super helpful.
Joey: And setting up the next day, the night before is great because then the morning of, I'm not using brain Power to be like, okay, what do I have to do this morning? Okay, this, this, because then I'm. [00:49:00] Using my brain power to figure out the day. But if I know when I wake up in the morning, I go through my morning routine, you know, a shower, I eat, I journal, I'll do whatever.
Joey: I'm right into it. I don't have to think about anything. I'm just boom, right into the day. So the night before, setting up my day or like checking on what, what I'm doing today, and then I know for this next hour and a half phone's off, just emails off. This is my only window open. This is what I'm doing.
Joey: Chunk in a way. But actually setting the aside, setting aside that time specifically for that is extraordinarily helpful.
Jordan: Uh, you mentioned journaling. Have you always done that or is that something that's been a, a new development for you?
Joey: I, I used did it a lot when I was younger. Uh, I've done it l especially when I was traveling.
Joey: I do it less. Here and now, but I've, I tend to do it early in the morning when I first wake up. I just try and get [00:50:00] as many thoughts out on a page as possible. It's kind of like a, a mental dump. Some people, uh, refer to 'em as morning pages. Uh, it's referred to in the, in the book called The Artist's Way, and some people write for up to 20 minutes.
Joey: For me, it's about five or 10 minutes. I just, whatever's on my mind, I just try and get it down on a page so I can clear my mind as quickly as. . No, I,
Jordan: it's, this is something that's been just like sticking with me lately is the idea of journaling. And I'm always like, it's like, what do you write about or what do you, um, but I think that the, the idea of that just get the things on your mind off your mind.
Jordan: That, I think that's what I needed to hear because I just struggled with, it's like, well, it needs to be profound. Or like, no, It doesn't,
Joey: yeah. It, it's literally clearing space and, and so like, I, I have a book dedicated specifically to my morning pages where it's just mind. I never read it. I just, it's just mind dump.
Joey: Mm-hmm. So it's just, it, it's not even that legible, but it's just, Ugh, [00:51:00] get it out. Get it out. Get it out five, 10 minutes. I mean, some people do up to 20. Get it out, get it out, get it out, and then, huh, okay. I feel a bit better. And then move on to the next task.
Jordan: Do you like those more, the idea of like the morning routine?
Jordan: Does that help you? Is it, is it rigid or like, how do you kind of shape your, your day? I, I'll
Joey: say this, when I don't have a morning rhythm, ritual, routine, whatever I wanna call it, uh, I notice. . Yeah. And when I do have it, I notice it. Um, you know, I've been playing with different ones for myself over the last couple months and, um, I'm still finding what, what's, what's, uh, most efficient or most effective for me.
Joey: Um, and I think anyone who decides that they're gonna commit to just doing something in the [00:52:00] morning that helps set them up for the day, they're gonna find. Drastic improvements in their state of mind, their state of health for the rest of the day, and the rest of their, their lives ahead.
Jordan: Why, why have you been experimenting?
Jordan: Is it, did you feel like what you were doing was not, you know, successful or was it like you just wanted to try to see if there was another thing to tap into? .
Joey: Yeah. I like to, I like to play it like, some people say like, this is my morning routine, so do this and mm-hmm. , like, some people like to work out in the mornings.
Joey: I, I just, my body's not ready for it. Mm-hmm. right then. So like, I was like, that doesn't work. Or some people like to meditate in the, like, first thing when I wake up, well, I'm still like half asleep sometimes, so I'm like, well, I need to shower right when I wake up so I can, and I end my shower with a cold blast This way.
Joey: I'm like, okay, whew. Here we go. So now I'm awake, now I'm present. Sure. Maybe then I'll go meditate. But for me, The morning's not for my meditation. It's not when I do it. Like may not right away, maybe an hour later, maybe two hours later. But I just had to [00:53:00] experiment with different time blocks of when do I wanna do what for myself.
Joey: Mm-hmm. . Uh, some people do their, their best work in the mornings, writing in the mornings. Some people write better in the afternoons. So it's experimenting with what works for me. There is no right way to do anything. There's. This is what I'm gonna do, and then deciding to do it and then checking, did that work?
Joey: Do I feel the better? Let me try a couple more times, and then let's evaluate. Does this work? Well? If it is working, keep doing it. If it's not working, try something else. Stop thinking there's a right answer out there. There's not. This is what works for you and what doesn't work for you.
Jordan: I like that cuz I, we, you, you see those influencers or people that post that's like, well this is what you need to do.
Jordan: You gotta wake up at this time, then do this, this, this, and this. And maybe they don't mean it that way, but I think a lot of people can fall into, well then that's what I have to do cuz they're doing it and it works for them. So that's what I
Joey: should do. Uh, I mean, I'll encourage my clients like, here's, here's what's worked for me.
Joey: Here's what's helped worked for other people. Here's what I [00:54:00] think would benefit you. I'm gonna encourage you and invite you to try this challenge yourself and like, do it for a while and see if it works. Notice what does and what doesn't. I'll never tell when they have to do something or should do something, but I will invite them to change, to do something that changes the way they've been doing their life so they can disrupt, they get to disrupt the patterns they've been in.
Joey: That's what's important. Disrupt the patterns, disrupt the same, all, same all. And sometimes it's like, whoa, this is so much better. Other
Jordan: times not, but that's all right. You
Joey: just keep trying. , other times not, but Butner saying like, okay, this doesn't work. Why doesn't this work? And, and what, what I, and sometimes just doing something different goes like, eh, not this, but, but actually what I'd rather do is, is actually this.
Joey: I don't wanna meditate in the morning, but I wanna do is I wanna read. Okay, great. So read. But it's better than like popping on my phone right away.
Jordan: I'm bad about that. I, yeah, I've been really working on that one as cuz that just throws you in a, it'll put you at [00:55:00] like your days then in control of you Uhhuh,
Jordan: And I hate that feeling. So I've been working really hard on that, at least first thing in the morning, not looking at the
Joey: phone. Yeah. I mean, for, and like, like I've made change of that work where I, my phone's in the kitchen when I go to sleep and now I don't sleep with it anymore and I don't look at it, you know, until like an hour before I wake.
Joey: I've been going to bed earlier so I can wake up early. Like all these things work for me, but that's me. But I had a, had a experiment to find it. What works for me. Yeah. I know what it's like to be in those addictive cycles and they suck
Jordan: for sure. Kinda like a, just a clean, like anytime you can, people talk about it with diets, but cleansing yourself of certain habits is, I feel like it's always kind of freeing to just like clear yourself of like, you show yourself you don't need it.
Jordan: Yeah. Big time. I know that, uh, you may have some time constraints, but I wanted to at least Is there, how can people get in [00:56:00] touch with you or follow what you're doing?
Joey: Yeah. Um, the best way to get in touch with me, probably through my Instagram, this Naked Voice. I got a podcast called This Naked Voice as well.
Joey: Uh, I release, I release episode sporadically, um, oh my website, joey cardella.com. Um, yeah, I'm in the process of going through a big rebrand, but that's cool. Like things will happen. I guess TikTok this naked voice as well, but. Yeah, like I, I'm, I wanna work with people who, who are looking to make a difference for themselves, who are tired of, like, being stuck in these patterns.
Joey: Who, who want better relationships, but also wanna make an impact in their world, in their community who are building something. Like, those are the people who I wanna work with. For people tired of not feeling like enough [00:57:00] who wanna like, be like, realize it's okay to be where I'm. and it's okay to wanna keep getting better as well.
Joey: There's no one way. There's just like, let's accept ourselves where we're at and let's try and get better too, if that's what we want.
Jordan: And I like that cuz a lot of times you hear the word like content doesn't necessarily mean that you're like just stagnant. Like you can be content, be comfortable in your own skin with with your own accomplishments, but also ambitious as well.
Jordan: Yeah.
Jordan: I'd love to, uh, Connect with you again, um, just for myself. Uh, I don't know what those coaching exploration meetings look like, but, uh, lemme know when you got some time and we'll, we'll connect again. Let's do it. I'd love that. But I app I appreciate the, the time today. Um, very insightful, just even for me.
Jordan: Um, but no, you, you're got a lot of insight and wisdom into some things [00:58:00] that I think, uh, or at least meaningful for me and I'm sure for a lot of other,
Joey: I really appreciate you inviting me on here. It was, I mean, when we connected last week, I just got the sense that like, man, this guy's got it. Like he's, he's got an idea of what he wants to create.
Joey: He's got a great energy. So I'm just, I just wanna honor you for, for asking for what you want.
Jordan: Uh, the worst thing that you can do is say no, I assume so. Uh, you know, I'm not afraid of that.
Joey: Right, but even asking for what you want, it's a big thing that a lot of people struggle with. So I just wanna honor you for asking for what you want.
Joey: Appreciate it,
Jordan: sir Joey. Definitely. Lemme know when you got some time. I thank you again.