This week, I am interviewing a marketing extraordinaire Barbara Rozgonyi. In this episode, we discuss the 4Ds of Marketing, personal branding tips, and the importance of a mastermind group!
Watch Full Episodes: Youtube Channel
Follow Our Guest!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK2xstGS0z-hwjiapDorw0g
https://www.facebook.com/BarbaraJRozgonyi/
CHAPTERS:
1:16 4 Ds of Marketing, KPIs, & Personal Brand
2:16 Consistency & Trail Blazing
36:53 Future Plans & Mastermind Group
57:37 Outro / Get in touch w/ Barbara Rozgonyi
FOLLOW ON SOCIALS
TIKTOK - https://www.tiktok.com/@jasimon.co
Instagram - www.instagram.com/jasimon.co
Twitter - https://twitter.com/jasimonco
Facebook - www.facebook.com/jasimon.co
Website - www.jordanasimon.com
Barbara: [00:00:00] You can really get caught up in looking at the competition, you know? And if you wanna be a knockoff or wannabe, there's plenty of opportunities to do that, but that's not really being authentic. And I know that's an overused word. Every time I hear, hear somebody say that, be yourself. I'm like, you know, I've heard that like
Barbara: I know I'm supposed to be myself. But you know, it goes back to personality and reputation. What makes you who you are?
Jordan: Hey everyone. Thanks so much for watching or listening this week to In Pursuit It Better. Today we're talking to Barbara Rosk. She's a marketing expert who's had a really cool career that ranges for everything from pr, um, in the nineties to digital marketing and today. So we get to see a wi a. We get to take a deep dive into what marketing is now, what it has been, and how that change, [00:01:00] um, has happened over the years.
Jordan: So it's, for me, it was really exciting, um, but from a business perspective and for personal branding. But I hope that you guys get something out of this as well. So remember to like, or subscribe wherever you're watching or listening. Um, but let's dive straight into the conversation with Barbara. Well, the, um, first question I had, whenever I see your profile and I look, look you up, it talks about the 4D market.
Jordan: I'll kind of wanna know what that means because it's uh, you say it a lot, so I just wanted to know what that meant.
Barbara: Well, what it means is it's a way for you to have a compass with your marketing. And I developed this 4D framework because I was dealing with so many people and so many clients. And you sit down and, you know, it's kind of like you wanna walk people through something, but you're not sure where to start or how it's gonna flow.
Barbara: So it's a system that can really help you. Optimize your marketing and really do the best that you can with, with all of your content, all your budget, all your creativity. So I [00:02:00] will tell you how it works. So the first part is your digital profile. And your digital profile is really your digital D n a, and that wraps around your pr, which is your personality and reputation.
Barbara: So it's really the way you show up online. So that's digital. The next one is direct connections, and that's really like the buyer's persona. How are you gonna relate to people all along the path? Are you gonna do email? Are you gonna do pr? Are you gonna do ads? Are you gonna have a website? So that's really your flow.
Barbara: The next part is dynamic and dynamic storytelling. So what kinds of stories are you gonna tell? It should be about you. About how you work together, about the world at large. And one of the things I find that's really missing is the story. You know, so what is your storytelling? And the last part, which you could start with if you wanted, is data.
Barbara: So how are you gonna measure your success? It's, uh, one thing to do marketing and [00:03:00] honestly, sometimes you can do one piece of content that will generate a whole lot of success and you, you can measure it that way. Or maybe what you wanna do is you wanna measure the number of new followers. Um, you know, you could measure the number of people that sign up for your email.
Barbara: So to recap, its digital direct, dynamic, and. ,
Jordan: do you tailor the details inside that framework per client, or is this something. Like any business, any person can really apply to what they're trying to do, um, in the marketing. Well,
Barbara: yeah. It's kind of like theory and practice, right? Yeah. So it, the same theory applies to everyone.
Barbara: So everyone has a digital profile, uh, digital, d n a, built around your personality and reputation, but everyone's is different. Just like our DNA is different. Like if you were gonna do an ancestry.com for marketing, everybody would have different backgrounds, you know, and all these different influences on how you got [00:04:00] to be who you are.
Barbara: So yes, it's different for everyone. And one of the ways that we can really look in and see. What's happening with companies is to do a competitive analysis, and it might not be a direct competitor. For example, if you're in the home remodeling market, maybe you're looking at to, to, uh, really compete with the way your buyers would invest a large sum of money.
Barbara: So let's say you're doing a beautiful addition. It's gonna be 50, a hundred thousand dollars. , what other kinds of competition would there be for that kind of a spend with your customer? So what I love about it is there's so many different ways you can size it, resize it, but what you really wanna do is figure out what the company wants, what their clients want, and how you can best serve those customers.
Jordan: That makes a lot of sense. I've never thought about it in the sense of, you think about competition. Mm-hmm. , not necessarily. Mm-hmm. , you know, as competitors, not necessarily competing ideas or, uh, [00:05:00] options for somebody to spend their money.
Barbara: Well, the other thing is time. Yeah. You know, so, uh, really, we're all in a huge competition for time and attention.
Barbara: You know, when people go online, it's really, I don't know about you, Jordan. Do you ever go down a rabbit hole? Yes. You know all the time. You start one place and then like, it could even be only 30 seconds or a minute later, you're like, how in the world did I wind up way over here? Yeah. So, you know, that's another thing we have to think about is what kind of attention.
Barbara: um, competition do we have? And if you're a local business, one way to really dive into that race, if you will, is to look at what's going on in your town and really bring those attention getting devices into your story as well. So if there's a lot of events, you know, you can go, you can take pictures, you can post, you can repost.
Barbara: If there's a networking group you like, you can. Repost their information. You can go to their events, but there's a way you can, you [00:06:00] can show up on someone else's stage is, is what I like to say. So it's not like you're closed out, you know, you can still be there. I struggle
Jordan: with that a lot in the idea of, um, like what.
Jordan: You're, you're never gonna get everybody's attention. Right. Right. So I, and as I've, through business or just personal branding, I think a lot of times I struggle with that. Like, y necessarily is my following not X or mm-hmm. , whatever it may be. Mm-hmm. , so you talked about data mm-hmm. , and I've been in this process of like setting goals and stuff for myself.
Jordan: So how, how do you help your clients or even yourself think about what are real metrics. For, or real realistic metrics for maybe it is the following, or just for business? How do you sit, sit there and set your goals? Well,
Barbara: that's a good question. And you know, is there a right answer? Probably not , but you do wanna keep an eye on what's happening.
Barbara: And what's great is the platforms give you reporting on their own. And when we work with clients, that's one of the things [00:07:00] we love. We had one client who wanted us to weigh in every week and tell them how they were doing, which is kind of like getting on the scale every day. . But it was good because what happened is then we were able to really look at those shifts in transitions in their audience culture in general and just really pay attention and be tightly attuned to what's happening.
Barbara: So some, some metrics you might wanna look at, they're hard kpi, soft KPIs, and those are key performance indicators. So it could be things like how many followers are you gonna have? And I know if you've gone. Sites where they've got a million followers and then like three people who comment, is that really an engaged.
Barbara: Not really. So what you really wanna do, I would say, is keep it to a small collection of numbers and data points to follow. You can go just like if, if you wanna follow everything, LinkedIn has to show you about your company page. There's a lot to see. . [00:08:00] But I think some things that would be good are, is your company following growing?
Barbara: Are people engaging? And sometimes if you get a comment from one person who has a huge following or great influence, that can really outweigh 10 or 20 comments from people who are, are great friends and you don't wanna lose them, but if there's audiences that they're commenting on your information, all of a sudden that opens you up to a bigger, brighter world.
Jordan: I like that. How do. one. Uh, and then the other thing I struggle with is, like you said, it's not necessarily about the numbers, but an engagement. Mm-hmm. , how do you measure whether your audience is engaged or is it just kind of a feeling? Does that make sense? Well, a feeling
Barbara: is a good way of looking at sometimes.
Barbara: I feel like, I mean, honestly, I'm so proud of the update for, for one that I do, or I think my clients have really done a great job and. Like falls flat. Yeah. Nobody wants it, but I think one thing that people are really missing [00:09:00] is that even if you don't get a lot of engagement, if you do it right, you can show up in search and seo, and if you use the right hashtags, then that's another engagement.
Barbara: Criteria that people miss is are the search engines catching you? And if they are, then you know, that's kind of like a hidden benefit. But really, how do you know, I guess, you know, you just have to stand back and and look. And sometimes I get caught up cuz I'll be like, wow, that wasn't a very good week.
Barbara: But then when you look at over time, I've. Sent up like 25,000 tweets written, 1500 blog posts. It's a body of work. So when you think of yourself as crafting a body of work over time, something that you're really committed to, all of a sudden the the point by point post engagement doesn't really matter so much, but what you can look at is trends.
Barbara: So what does your audience really respond? And I know one thing that people love is when you go to an event and you take a picture of yourself with other people, [00:10:00] and quite often these events don't have their own coverage. So you can write a recap or just say three things I learned and have a picture of yourself with the speaker.
Barbara: And if the speaker has their own audience and you tag them, then you're in front of their audience and they might come and comment on yours. So if you can get out there and expand your network and think of yourself as a reporter, that's gonna bring you more engagement and it's gonna show you. As someone who is connected to information that people wanna see.
Jordan: I really like that advice. You always take out your, you take pictures sometimes of just like landscapes. Is the photography thing just something that you do cuz it's a passion or is it like a. Hey, here's some content as well. Well, that's
Barbara: a good question, Jordan. It's part back to j uh, personality and Reputation.
Barbara: Now, if I were giving myself marketing advice, I would say no one really wants to see that . Uh, but then, um, I feel like it's a differentiator. I, I think I might be one of the only people on LinkedIn who does Friday flowers, and if you look at that [00:11:00] hashtag. , you know, some Fridays I'm like, do I have to do Friday flowers again?
Barbara: The answer is no. I never have to do it again in my life. But the, um, it, it's, it, if you have something like that, even if it's just little, it keeps you consistent in a routine and it's something you're known for. I also feel like we don't get enough. Relaxation and enough time in the woods. And you and I are in North Carolina, so like you can't really see out my window here, but if you could, you'd see what's a forest, and then pines, which is my backyard.
Barbara: Yes. Yeah. You know, so I just feel like one of my values is beauty in the world, in nature, and I like to share that with people. So that's why I have that. And if you're on Instagram, then you see I do Catter Day. Every Saturday with my cat who has his own following. And if I didn't post a picture of him, I'm sure people would be saying, do you still have the cat?
Barbara: So that's kind of annoying, but he is like, last week I showed a picture of him holding my credit card. Did I pose him to do that? No, he just did it. You [00:12:00] know, so , you know, when you're trying to add a little bit of fun and entertainment, , if you're in business, you know that's an easy way to do it is, is to really bring in things that are interesting to you and that connects you with other people who has have those shared interests as well.
Jordan: Does that, does your audience help hold you accountable? Because that's the other thing I struggle with is that idea of consistency. Yeah. Right. That a, a lot of the biggest thing kind of in producing content, being a creative is just out. Right. So
Barbara: yeah, it, it is. And you know, a lot of people don't do enough of it.
Barbara: You know, if you look at Gary V, I think mm-hmm. , he has a videographer who follows him around. And so that's great. I mean, I think he has just really acclimated or really just. In just kind of eased into this being that's always on camera. It's like his own reality show. Mm-hmm. , which is fabulous, but most people, number one, don't wanna do that.
Barbara: And number two, they probably wouldn't feel comfortable. [00:13:00] Uh, so yeah, I think my audience over time has changed. You know, when I first got started, I did so much updating on what's new and marketing and pr and it was a lot easier than it is now. You know? Um, I do have. I'm listed as a media outlet for trends, so I do have a ton of updates coming in in my email if I wanna look at 'em.
Barbara: For example, today I got a new report on what's happening with influencers and 45% of the money is going to TikTok. So that's interesting. Um, there's an AI app that everybody's using to show pictures of themselves. I don't know if you've seen that. Yeah, my favorite one is one of my friends who sent in, I don't know what movie star it was, but dang, he looks good.
Barbara: You know, , it's not really him, but, um, I got an email from another company who does that, so I feel like you. You know, you can decide who you wanna be for your followers, but the most important thing to be, no matter what you [00:14:00] decide, is to think of yourself as a trailblazer. Somebody who's always out there looking for something new.
Barbara: And yes, I love classic, I love traditional, all that stuff, but you know, people wanna know what's next. They really do. And if you can put yourself on the front edge and say, this is what's next, then that's a way to keep people. Their ears are perked up. You know, they wanna follow you cuz they, they, they're looking for what's gonna happen.
Barbara: They don't wanna read all the emails and all the articles. They want someone to really guide 'em through It.
Jordan: Is, do you, you talk about these emails, do you follow trends in your, um, in your, um, , like within what you're posting, like do you think that that's important or is it, I mean, cuz you talked a little bit about being a trailblazer, but is it also kind of important to do what's trending and what's popular?
Barbara: I think so.
Barbara: Okay. Because I think here's what's gonna happen. If you know what's trending and popular, then you're gonna stay ahead of the game. And one of my favorite clients I worked [00:15:00] with over 20 years back in Illinois was a kitchen and bath designer. And so I wrote about trends for them. I followed the trends.
Barbara: Sometimes we made them up and people would follow. And you can make up your own trends too, if you want. That's fine. And so, I think it's important just to have a feel for what's next, cuz then you're guided. It makes you feel like you're on a road to somewhere and you can show people the way of the future.
Barbara: It's also a differentiator too, because I don't care what kind of group you're involved with. . And I know if you've ever served on a committee like I have, you know, they say we've always done it this way. And I was in an event last night and they're like, for 96 years we've done it this way and this year we're doing something different.
Barbara: I'm like, yeah, . So, yeah. Um, one way, if you wanna stay on the front edge is to find a social media group in your area. And that's not just marketing to me, that's culture. Cuz we're really, it's just really shaping the way we live and how much we spend our time.
Jordan: I had [00:16:00] a, I think I posted a quote or something about that, cuz it, especially in like the home services industry that I'm in mm-hmm.
Jordan: it's like people, it's like, no, we've always done it this way. So anytime you start to change, it's like why people are uncomfortable with that. And you know, your business has been around for, you know, 30 years now. How, how have you managed to stay with, you know, stay relevant and, and through all those changes?
Jordan: Because, you know, the nineties to today is a very different marketing
Barbara: l. It is, but I'm thinking maybe one of my TOXs in 2023 will be nineties nostalgia. That makes sense. I like it. Well, you know, it's like I'm noticing everyone loves the nineties and some of the best projects I ever did were in the nineties.
Barbara: And I think there are some classic elements that will reverberate across time. They're timeless. You know, one of 'em was, uh, designing the intranet. First, the first internet and a Fortune 50 in the United States, maybe the world, I don't know, over 13 different departments, and so I was [00:17:00] part of that project.
Barbara: That was groundbreaking at the time. You know, we were like, what are we even doing? You know, we, we were just putting things together, but now we're still struggling with some of the same challenges we had at that time. How do we get people to check in? How do we get people to be engaged? You know, what did they want?
Barbara: They wanted to check and see what was in the cafeteria, you know, , you know, so how do we get leadership communications? So I, I feel like there's some classic elements that always flow through storytelling is one of 'em. And the 4D system. Even if you rolled that all the way back to the nineties and we said instead of saying digital, well we could, we could kind of sort of say there were some websites there.
Barbara: Not that many, but we were talking about the internet. , you know, direct, how are we communicating with people? Direct marketing was really, really big in Chicago. Sears, Robuck started that. And there are some real great elements of direct marketing that people just don't know about today. I talked to to classes of [00:18:00] college students and interns that are just blown away by what you can do with direct marketing.
Barbara: And those elements work with advertising online as well. And then dynamic, you know, um, it. Working with the companies and finding out what makes you tick, who inside is exciting, you know, what things are happening that are worth retelling. And then data, I think data is really the one that's evolved because we didn't really have that much marketing information.
Barbara: Sure. We had direct mail and then the response rate was one half to 1%, which is kind of what we're seeing with social media. So that is different. And now, uh, with. Marketing tech, I guess we're up over 10,000 tools that measure results, which blows my mind. It's like that's why I don't really try to ta stay up with it as much as I used to
Barbara: Cause I, I don't know, you know, I don't know if anyone can, it's kind of out of our control now. How
Jordan: did you. I kind of, I want to [00:19:00] come back to that project that you worked on, but how did you get into that space? What was it right outta school that you just worked with a PR firm, or was it you worked for a different business first?
Jordan: How did you get
Barbara: into marketing? No, it was, I, I'd like to say yes, I worked at a PR firm on these really big accounts, but. Don't tell anybody. I never worked for pr. . I started You're safe. Yeah. I started my own. Yeah. Uh, well, what happened was I was in sales and uh, I, I was doing a great job with sales, but we had our daughter.
Barbara: and she was like, I think nine months old. And I went on my first sales trip after I had her, and I was in St. Louis, she was in Chicago with my husband. And I woke up and I'm like, whoa, I don't think I want this. And guess what? It's Mother's Day. So I decided in that moment I would find a way to work from home, which was groundbreaking.
Barbara: No one did that. So the only way to do it, I went through career counseling and they said, you can be a florist or a writer. [00:20:00] And so the florist route was cool except that I would actually lose money with the babysitter cuz they didn't pay that much. And then, uh, being a writer, I went and talked to. A local college cuz I thought I needed my master's.
Barbara: And the admissions director said, no, you don't need a master's. But writers don't make very much. And I had a friend who worked for a major news organization and she said, you'll make $35 an hour. And I said Okay. And then I met these women in Chicago and men who were freelance writers, moms and dads. And I said, how much do you all make?
Barbara: And they said, $75 an hour. That's what you need to charge. Cuz they wanted everybody to charge more . So, I said, I dunno if I do that. I did. You know? So that's how I really got started it. And if you wanna get started with something, find a peer group who's already doing what you're doing, that that shares.
Barbara: And I am the membership chair for National Speakers Association of the Carolinas, north and South Carolina came, I did some similar things in Illinois, but that group is a group where if you were interested in professional [00:21:00] speaking or consulting, you can talk peer to peer. So if you can find a group like.
Barbara: That will really help you launch your business. And even if it's just a side branch of your business, it will help you go so far, so fast. So that's really how I got started. And then in writing, I wrote a couple press releases. We had this pastor that was really. He was really controversial, you know, in a good way.
Barbara: He was, he was really living the life. So he had all these programs he did, and he did one about, uh, the Stars and the Sneetches from Dr. Seuss. He did things like that. So I wrote press releases, sent 'em to the paper, and then also we had Head Start. So I did a story about how the women in the Newcomers Club.
Barbara: Would give, they would have like a boutique for the kids and they would just donate scarves and jewelry and ties and all these things that they really didn't need, and they'd box 'em up and wrap 'em and the kids would shop the local paper had no idea. We had a headstart. So, you know, I felt like, oh [00:22:00] wow, I'm spreading all these great stories.
Barbara: And then I started my company and, uh, named after my mother and grandmother, and I just thought, I'm gonna stay here with my kids, watch 'em grow up. And that's what I did. Who were you?
Jordan: So you were writing these press releases and then you started the company, so. Still just, uh, doing the freelance writing type of thing?
Jordan: Yes. Or did that Okay. Yeah.
Barbara: And here's what I did. I went back to my client, uh, back to my employer, which is, uh, a company owned by Blue Cross and Blue Shield Plants. They're the, they were the world's largest organ transplant reinsure at the time. Mm-hmm. And I went back to them and asked if I could do anything for them.
Barbara: And at first they said, no. and then they said, well, you know, we really would like, just tell us what you think you can do. So I said, okay, here's what I wanna do. I wanna see if we can get you in risk management, which was this magazine for, for people who are, um, underwriters and, and risk managers. and they said, well, we don't know if we can get in there.
Barbara: I said, just let me send 'em a [00:23:00] note. So we sent 'em an email and they came back and said, not only do we love this story, we wanna make it the cover story. So that was called Transplanting transplant risk. Then we did, uh, and that had stories about people like Mickey Manel who had a liver transplant and just all these.
Barbara: People. So my work has really been to take those stories, elevate 'em, and make the world a better place for my clients. And I've really been lucky to have had some good opportunities to do that.
Jordan: Did you write those stories that were in the. I did. Yeah. That's pretty cool. That makes a lot of sense though then why you've been so successful in the, the marketing, the writing, the speaking, it seemed, the more you do it, like all of it goes back to writing and being able to communicate well, whether you're just sending an email, making a social media post, whatever it is, that writing skill.
Jordan: It's extremely important. .
Barbara: Yes. You know, and it's funny cuz when I was in college, Jordan, my professor, business and technical writing professor, my senior year came up to me and he goes, I have a job and [00:24:00] I've decided that you should be the one who should get the lead. And he was gonna hook me up. I was gonna be.
Barbara: a writer in Chicago for a company, and I said, no, my friends are going into sales. So I took a job that was really iffy, kind of on the rocks and probably paid 60% less than the other job. But I just thought I knew better. And it's kind of funny how things come around, you know? So .
Jordan: Well it's, it's funny how other people can recognize like your gifts and your talents.
Jordan: Yeah. Sometimes before you. .
Barbara: Yeah, exactly. And, and writing's a tough one though, because now it's easier. There's a, a new, new, uh, AI out called chat, G t p, maybe you've heard of it. I love it. Uh, have you tried it? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. , you know. Yeah. I mean, and I don't know where we're going now. You know, it's nice because it gives you a baseline and Yeah.
Barbara: One of the most successful writers I met was. At Blog World in Las Vegas, probably in 2007, 2008, and they'd written a million words that year. [00:25:00] And I said, how did you do? and they said voice transcription, software, , you
Jordan: know, so , I've thought more and more about that because I'm good at talking and like mm-hmm.
Jordan: that's where I'm comfortable. Yeah. Not as good at writing cuz I ramble. Cause I write the way I talk. Yeah. Um, so a, the, the AI thing has been very helpful just to gimme kind of like a little bit more structure. Yeah. But then also if I can just take what I've said and have that transcribed, that
Barbara: works for.
Barbara: Yeah, that's good. If you have an editor, even if it's like a family member that likes treat, you have to watch it because some of them can really be very critical or they can overlay their editing style over yours, and maybe it is fantastic for an essay or a college course, but if you're writing online, it may not be what you're looking for at all.
Barbara: That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. So don't feel bad if someone says, I don't like. That's okay. Maybe, maybe you're on
Jordan: the right track. , it's all a process. . Cause I, I've really just started the personal brain and stuff and it's like, [00:26:00] it, I'm okay with it not working cuz it's like, I don't even know what I'm doing.
Jordan: It's like I'll just put things out there and kind of see, you know, and I'm trying to be like, well this is what I like, this is what I'm trying to say and put out there. Yeah. Yeah. Even if people don't re respond to it. But, um, how do you stay, like within your own self, like true to yourself whenever you're, I mean, you've done it for a while now.
Jordan: It still has to be hard to not look at other people and be like, well, I wanna try that cuz they're doing well at it.
Barbara: Well, that's it. Yeah. I mean, uh, you know, you can, you can really look, you can really get caught up in looking at the competition, you know, and if you wanna be a knockoff or wanna be, there's plenty of opportunities to do that, but that's not really being authentic.
Barbara: And I know that's an overused word. Every time I hear, hear somebody say that, be yourself. I'm like, you know, I've heard that like . I know I'm supposed to be myself, but you know, it goes back to personality and reputation. What makes you who you are? Because [00:27:00] no one else wants to put up pictures of flowers on Friday.
Barbara: Not very many people wanna do travel. Tuesday posts, the one Travel Tuesday post I got a ton of reaction on was one about, uh, Delta Airlines, and that just blew up somebody who wanted to talk about. Stopped by left, dropped a couple comments and it just ignited the conversation, which is great. Mm-hmm. . So, you know, I think one thing that really works is if you do a podcast like you're doing now and you have a show that brings your personality out, and it's a differentiator too, because not everybody's gonna do that.
Barbara: And even if they do, you're different because you have a different set of guests, you've got different questions, so you just really have. Just have confidence and be intentional about what you do. You know, I have another system called Wired, which is words, intentions, routes, experiences, and then the 4D design.
Barbara: But you know, what kind of words really describe who you are? What is your intention with this? [00:28:00] Are you there to have fun, to educate people? I don't think most people would say, I'm here to compete, but you know, or, or to maybe you are. . It's not like your first thing you know, I think you really just wanna stand out as being the trailblazing thought leader that people are looking for when they want you.
Barbara: Whether it's a home service or if they want financial services or a consultant. You, they, you want people to look at your stuff and say, yep, I'm gonna work with them.
Jordan: Well, cuz that's the thing. And you lose sight of that. But people want to work with. Person that they feel they know. Right, exactly. Like they're gonna use your company because they feel like they know you.
Barbara: Yeah. That's it. You know, I did a consulting project for a big company that was acquiring a bunch of local home services organizations, and they wanted to know what makes a really good website. So I went through that and I, I came up with this guideline. I'm like, here's what would make a really good website.
Barbara: Well that's great, but you know, if, if you don't have the local person and you're showing up in Google, so what, [00:29:00] you know, even I see some people or or agencies, you look at 'em and, and I know they do great work cuz they've got their work, but you're like, who made it? You know? And if you, there's, if you see a baker on Instagram and they show the baker, you're like, I know who made my cookies.
Barbara: You know, it just makes you feel like you have more of a connect. So if you don't have a face on your information and people don't really know who you are, then you're gonna lose out and you don't have to reveal everything, you know, you don't have to show every picture of every kid or every animal or every vacation, but just enough so that they know who you are.
Barbara: And then when you come to their door and you meet it, then they already feel like they know. And that's what's really worked for me. Some of my best clients have already gone online, read everything they can about me and they are ready to sign the contract. And I'm always like, what ? What you, you actually read that?
Barbara: You know? And um, but there was something that intrigued them and they're, they knew they were my people [00:30:00] and I'm like, yep, you're my people.
Jordan: Well, that kind of comes back to what you were saying where you've, you know, you have 25,000 tweets out there. Like just because you're not getting the engagement doesn't mean that one of those potential clients isn't going back and looking at something you've said or caught something a while back.
Barbara: Well, and they can look and see are they, are they actually creating anything? Mm-hmm. , you know, cuz there's a lot of people who are social media experts. And, uh, one thing I love about today is anybody can be anything. You know, that's fine, but you really have to see what are they doing on their own? What kind of content are they creating?
Barbara: And even if you're not looking for somebody in social media, it's interesting to see. I mean, that's a, a differentiator for me. We redid our bathroom and I can't tell you. I was looking at pictures of the renovation, Jordan. I'm like, oh my gosh. And I wonder I have so much free time because I researched everything.
Barbara: I had fun with it, but it was also wearing. But the company I spent a boat with for the bathtub, They have a great Facebook page, like done, you know, . I'm like, they, they [00:31:00] respond to people. And then we had a problem. Uh, we had, uh, a screw that wasn't long enough. I called them on the phone, they answered right away, and they said, oh, we're really sorry about that.
Barbara: We know we have the problem and we will send it to you next day. Boom, there, it's there. That's awesome. Yeah.
Jordan: No, no, you would be, you know, yeah. And I, and maybe you're probably more conscious of it than other people. Just seeing that put together Facebook page probably does make a big difference in a lot of people's purchasing decision, even if they're not aware.
Barbara: Oh, I think it does. Yeah, it really does. And you know, if somebody wants to refer somebody, like now I can refer people, I can say, Hey, if you wanna go to their Facebook page, you can do that. And, uh, the photos are beautiful. It's, you could go to a big box store and buy a bathtub for half of what we paid, but I don't really know where it was made.
Barbara: I don't know when it's coming in. If there's a problem, I don't know who to go to, you know? So yeah, I think people are, are really. More and more and more they're really looking at connecting [00:32:00] with people to people. It's not just about price.
Jordan: Yeah. No, I think that's an important takeaway. And, and I always, and I think I struggled when I was first into like, the business for myself, and it's like social media and um, kinda like online marketing itself seems so big.
Jordan: Mm-hmm. , but it, I had to change my mindset as a way, it's still just a way. your customers, even if they're local to see you because they're not getting that interaction. Other ways, like you can use it as a tool to just keep your, your, those, those local or those known connections up to date. Like it doesn't have to be that you're connecting with everybody around the world.
Jordan: Yeah, that's, you can do that.
Barbara: Yeah, you can. Absolutely. I mean, you just have to be where they are and you're in their phone. You have to think, you know, you have to be in their phone. And one way that's great for small businesses, especially brick and mortar service, is with Google Your Business or Google My Business.
Barbara: You can set up a free page on Google and you probably have one [00:33:00] I, I have one for my business and they send me reports on how many people came by. You can treat it as a blog. You don't even have to pay for a website design. You can just be on Google. And the cool thing is you're gonna be on the. And I've done presentations for all kinds of industries, including financial services, dentists.
Barbara: And I'll pull it up and I'll, I'll be like, do you have a business in this area? Yeah. No, you don't. You know, . Cause you don't, Google doesn't see you. You know, and that's where your people are gonna look. You know, if, if you had a business next to some popular place, like for coffee, then every time people look for directions for coffee, they're automatically seeing the name of your business.
Barbara: Right. On that. So that's another way to get attention.
Jordan: Yeah, and I didn't, so like we have, uh, plumbing businesses in a couple of small towns and it's like you assume that everybody knows about it cuz it's in a small town. And then you see that Google my business report and it's like maybe 50 or a hundred people that month found you because they searched for a plumber.
Jordan: Yeah. I'm like, [00:34:00] but in my mind that's a town that small, they should already know. So it was really eye-opening to be like that many people were still goo. Where to find somebody, even though we're the only one there.
Barbara: Yeah. I, I think, uh, there are people moving in and out. That's one thing. And people have gotten lazy, you know, and also our memories are not what they used to be.
Barbara: It used to be that, you know, even, uh, a Yellow Pages, which is going way back into the nineties, , but, you know, people were used to just pulling that out, looking something up. No one does that anymore. Mm-hmm. , even 80 and 90 year olds use voice search. , you know, people are like, they'll just say, plumber in your town and that will pull it up.
Barbara: And they're, they, if you're not there, you're not in business according to the phone. And that person, they might even wonder, oh, I wonder what happened to them, you know, if somebody else comes up. So yeah, it's really important to be in their phone.
Jordan: For sure. I, I wonder cuz people, and I keep reverting back to the industry I know, but they talk about like, well, you know, [00:35:00] these older people still want to use the phone book and, and you, it's like, I don't think that that's
Barbara: true.
Barbara: It's not . No it's not. I mean, everybody has a phone and now there's a big problem. I don't know if you've heard it, I know you have a little one. Now grandparents are in trouble. It used to be the kids were in trouble for being on the phone too much. Now it's grandparents because they have found games on the phone.
Barbara: And also they love Google. So if you're talking or, and I know this for a fact, we have someone in our family who's in their eighties and it's just, It's like you have to Google everything. It's like a fact checker, you know? So .
Jordan: Yeah. It was so much easier growing up when I could just make up information.
Jordan: Now I get, my wife has that to me all the time and I'm like, you don't need to look it up. Just trust,
Barbara: you know? I know. I'm like, even my kids don't do that. Okay. So yeah, I think you've just gotta be on the phone and you don't even have to run ads. I mean, you can. , as long as you're in voice search. And that's something you can try.
Barbara: I'm not gonna say it right now because it'll go off, but yeah. Um, [00:36:00] if you say the name of the voice search engine, and then you ask it a question, test that and see if your business comes up. And that's another reason I have a podcast, Jordan, because if you say play the name of the podcast, it comes up. Uh, so yeah.
Barbara: So that gets you into search too.
Jordan: I, I was doing this because it. One of my biggest hobbies is just talking to people and I get to, I get to reach out to cool people like you and, and have conversations, and I'm like, if I can just do this and you know, somebody else can get something from it, that'll be great.
Jordan: It's not even, yeah, if, if it benefits me later on, that's fine, but if not, then I'm happy just chatting and learning it myself. Yeah, because thi you in particular have been just. , uh, I wanted to say like just vomiting information, , but that sounds negative, but it's been like such, so good. So much good stuff.
Jordan: Thank you. Um, yeah,
Barbara: I have a lot to share. So .
Jordan: Yeah. No. So I'm curious with some, like somebody like yourself that has all this experience that has written books that it, [00:37:00] that speaks, what are, what, what do you have going forward? Like what are you looking forward to? What goals do you have for. Well
Barbara: that's, you know, going forward one of the things I wanna do is, is really stay on top of trends, cuz I feel like that's really important.
Barbara: And with that in mind, I really do wanna develop my podcast more and I would like to have a membership. I do have courses, but I'd like to have a membership group where people could come in and I could help 'em with marketing because I find that even when I go to a networking event and if people are at a table and I'll say, does anybody have any questions?
Barbara: I'm able to answer some really important questions in a few minutes. And just get them unstuck, you know? Mm-hmm. , it, it's, it's interesting because people will be walking around and I never knew they did this, but they have like these marketing questions stuck in their head and they're like, if only I knew the answer, and I can give them that.
Barbara: So, uh, those are a couple things and I would like to take more landscape photography. I'm picking out, uh, an image for [00:38:00] an art show today. . And so that's been kind of fun. It's between the deer at a wedding, Uhhuh , which is in a fu dog garden, which is really, really nice. Uh, or a mushroom or something else. So, you know, just sharing the beauty is always fun.
Barbara: Do, do,
Jordan: do, does the flower Fridays come from that time working in a florist?
Barbara: No. You know, I just, I, I. , you know, so my joke was I should be a flower writer. And I did write one article that went to the Chicago Tribune and they bought it, but then a new editor came in and canned everything in the queue, so it never ran.
Barbara: Mm-hmm. . But I have worked with landscape designers and I just love plants and nature. I just love 'em. And I, I love flowers. It's, um, it's, they're just really so beautiful. And I think the beauty of a flower is it's not here for very long. And you just have to really, it's, you just have to be in the moment.
Barbara: I should have brought my fresh flowers up here. I have this giant bouquet of Lil's right now. But, you know, it just kind of, um, draws you in and makes you understand that life is a gift [00:39:00] and we just really have to shine and bloom and celebrate it for as long as we can. And, uh, that's why I love flowers because it's just such a, a burst of beauty that's short-lived.
Jordan: I love flowers too. I didn't know why until you just said that. Yeah, because I've been into orchids lately and they're those one, you know, they don. Bloom. They bloom for a short time and then it's like you, you have to take care of 'em. And it's, but that's, that's what's neat about 'em, I think.
Barbara: Yeah. They take a long time to come back.
Barbara: That's the other thing about flowers though, they can't be perennial and they can't come back year after year. Or that's one Here in the south though, it seems like we have flowers year round. And that's one of the things I love because in Chicago when things went into the deep freeze and that door slammed probably as late.
Barbara: November, probably as early as October. Mm-hmm. , it did not open again until I, you know, usually around St. Patrick's Day, we get our first crocuses. Sometimes they wouldn't show up till April 1st. So to go six months without any flowers outside. What, you know, . [00:40:00] So, so what things I like about living in the South?
Barbara: Did you, are you from Chicago originally? I am from Danville, Illinois. Okay. And Danville is 120 miles straight south of Chicago. That's also where I grew up in a neighborhood where a lot of movie stars had lived. So, Dick Van Dyke, who was in, uh, Mary Poppins, his brother, uh, Jerry Van Dyke, gene Hackman, Donald O'Connor, and Bobby Short.
Barbara: So all these people grew up right in my neighborhood, which was an okay neighborhood. Nothing fancy. Yeah. But just knowing that they were there, you know, it was like, even though I was a small town girl and it was just a, a regular town with a lot of industry, I thought, well, they were here. Maybe we could all take off and go someplace big.
Barbara: So yeah. That's pretty cool. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah. Then I moved to Chicago. So we were in Chicago till May, 2019. No, I,
Jordan: yeah, cuz I grew up in West Virginia and it's the same thing with the weather. Like, you get that, I don't know, I, I like it being a little bit more seasonal in the winter. Like we [00:41:00] still get winter, but yeah, it's
Barbara: manageable, not hardcore, like in Chicago where we have the polar vortex and it goes to 50 below.
Jordan: When you, um, I don't know how much time you have. Uh,
Barbara: yeah, you can talk as long as you want. Okay. .
Jordan: Okay. I have like a bunch of, uh, questions that I keep coming up with. Will you talk about the, um, like kind of a group or like a round table that you want to Uhhuh, . I've seen those and I I, those things, those seem very interesting to me.
Jordan: So how does, in your mind, how does something like that work? How, how does yours work?
Barbara: Well, it would be a mastermind where we could e either meet virtually or, um, In person. Probably. I'm thinking remote would be the best way because people are busy and it takes a while to get ready to go somewhere, drive, sit down and then leave.
Barbara: But what I found, even just in the last month or so, people are so hungry to be together. They just wanna be together again. And why not? You know, we've been apart for a while, so maybe meet quarterly in person [00:42:00] and have a topic every month that would really drill into any questions. So, for example, what do you wanna know about public relations?
Barbara: Mm-hmm. . And maybe even have a workshop element where if people want to write a press release while we're sitting there. , we can do that and then critique each others and then send them out. I, one of the best things I did, this was for not-for-profit groups, was um, it was like a blog hatching incubator. So all these not-for-profits that didn't have a blog came into the room and they all left with a blog and it was like, wow, that was really, really fun.
Barbara: That's pretty powerful. It was, it was, you know, so I just feel like business owners are super busy. I know I've worked with a lot of 'em and even trying to carve out time to look at marketing is a lot. I know that marketing budgets are another big question, and there are some ways to spend money right now.
Barbara: I mean, so how can we, like even have a content creation workshop where we take, uh, 30 minutes and make 30 days worth of. , you know, uh, we do [00:43:00] some video recordings, get, get, uh, people in front of a camera and have 'em talk about their story. So it's guided instead of having 'em saying, I don't know what to say because I've interviewed business owners who really don't know what to say and they have, oh my gosh, you know, they've got this magnificent legacy.
Barbara: And, but it's hard to talk about yourself, right? So, you know, how do we really package up all the good? Put it together into the 4D framework, the digital direct dynamic and data, and say, here you go. Let's stay in touch. Let's work together as a group. Let's move forward so that we can raise up, whether it's your town or your industry, so that we get out and get the reach that you need, and we get to people who really want what you've got.
Jordan: Uh, I've always struggled with that too, like the idea of putting yourself out there and talking about yourself. Mm-hmm. , but I, I've thought about it. It's like the only way to help others is if you have as a following of some kind. Right? Like in order to to direct [00:44:00] that attention, you have to first ask for it.
Jordan: Mm-hmm. . Um, but that's been hard. But how do you, how, how do you talk to those business owners that have those legacies and don't want to talk about themselves? How do. Talk them through the idea of let's put a, a face with that business. Uh, let's get your story out
Barbara: there. Well, first I interview 'em and they won't tell me very much, but probably the best example I ever had was this company.
Barbara: And they told me they wanted to, we were doing some research and they said, we want you to interview 26 people. And I said, okay. You know, and I had a team of people, I'm like, oh, I know who'd be great for that. And they're like, and we want you to interview every one of 'em. I was like Me. And they said, yes, you.
Barbara: And I thought, oh gosh, because that was a lot of time, you know, 26 people. Mm-hmm. and then trying to get back and forth together. I mean, it was nights, weekends, trying to get it all in in the timeframe. Well, what we found was in interviewing all these people is. The client didn't even know that the customers had their own [00:45:00] language and their own terminology, all in a loving, caring sort of way for that company.
Barbara: Their attachment, emotion, and loyalty was so, so deep that no one could ever have even imagined that's what existed in that relationship. And had we interviewed them and stopped there, we never would've seen it. So a lot of times one of the best things to do is talk to your customers, the ones that you've seen over and over.
Barbara: And ask 'em, you know, what, how, what does this mean to you? And when you look, work at some something with home services, I'm sure you have stories where you've been able to, uh, rescue people, um, you know, make repairs. at a very critical time. You know, what are those stories where you have been the superhero have swooped in?
Barbara: So that's one side. The other side is, you know, I like to talk about C P R storytelling, which is challenge process result. So what was the challenge? What was the process and what was the result? So you can turn it around and say the customer is the [00:46:00] hero of the story. because they recognize that they had a need, they did the research, they found you, and together you came up with a solution that worked out for them.
Barbara: So in that case, you know, if you're thinking about a movie, they really have the starring role and they're the ones who have the problem that needs to be fixed. And then your business is the one that comes in and you're, uh, the one who really helps them achieve their goal. Whatever that.
Jordan: It's the, is the idea that you record this interaction, this interview, this story, and use it?
Jordan: Or is it just to find out for yourself what those, uh, interactions are like for your, for your customers?
Barbara: I think you could do it either way. Yeah. I think what would be helpful is if you do the interview, like we have a home services company here in Charlotte, and they have, um, a couple that's sitting on a sofa, and I feel like, you know, if I saw these people in the grocery store, I'd say, I know you because they're, they say the same thing every time and it's nothing that's, Like, it could be applied to a bunch of businesses, but they're very visible.
Barbara: These [00:47:00] clients are, so that's another thing to think about. Do you have clients who are visible? Mm-hmm. . And for one of our clients, what we did was we would pull in the most visible leaders of the community and we'd have a party and we would make sure that we would get a picture with the mayor, with the, uh, superintendent of schools.
Barbara: And, you know, if there was. A leading organization. So we would have the who's who, and it was, it was our delight to bring the who's who together to celebrate. So that's another thing you can do if you kind of want the, um, you know, the influence by association. But back to the storytelling, yes. I mean, you should have, even if you only have two or three great customer stories, get started and move on from there.
Barbara: But people need to know how great you are to work with and what makes you different and why they should choose.
Jordan: I'm gonna go back to your, uh, mastermind . Um, how do you go about [00:48:00] putting that group together? Is it other, like, thought leaders in marketing? Is it just people that want to come be part of it? Like how, in your mind, how do you build the, that mastermind group? Well,
Barbara: in my mind it would be me as the leader and the connector.
Barbara: And so I have a lot of information. But if we wanted special information, then have a special guest come in. For example, if, if we had, uh, a group that really, really, really wanted to know about Instagram influencers in their community, then we would find out who are those people and bring 'em in and do a.
Barbara: and hopefully hire them, you know, so, mm-hmm. , um, you know, connecting resources I think is really important because you could spend all day and then you don't even know if you've got the right person, especially in the influencer market. There are, there are some that do like these jazzy videos with lots of music and dancing that might not be your person, right?
Barbara: Maybe, uh, if you're in home services, maybe you wanna deal with someone who does home design. Maybe you wanna partner with an architect, uh, you know, you wanna. align with [00:49:00] someone who has a, a, uh, like a collaborative business or cooperative business.
Jordan: Do you view yourself as the, as a connector?
Barbara: Yeah. Even though I don't think of myself that way, Jordan, I think I should just say I am because I, I started a group in Chicago, the independent writers of the West.
Barbara: We had 40 people at our first meeting. Wow. And it was really for people who wanted to have a professional writing career. That was fun. And then I was just interested in social media and. . We came back from this trip to Minnesota and I told my husband I was gonna go to Social Media Meetup for the 2016 Olympics in Chicago.
Barbara: And my husband, this is in 2008, my husband goes, you don't even like the Olympic. It's, and that's eight years away. Where are you going? We just got home. I said, see you. So I, you know, I just, I just wanted to be around these people. So then I got a call from Social Media Club Global and they said, well, you put the stake in the ground in Chicago.
Barbara: And I said, You know, I have [00:50:00] like three kids that are teenagers. I, I was thinking it should be some young tech hotshot, you know, but no, they wanted me to do it. And so I formed a group, we got together and we grew it with my co-partner, Jeff. We grew it to the third largest social media club in the world with over 3000 people.
Barbara: So, so
Jordan: you've done this before, is, uh, , there's one reason why, you know you can do it.
Barbara: Yeah. Well, yeah. Now I'm in charge of membership services for N S A Carolinas. So it's all about, you know, what kind of benefits, what, what feels good to you? And I know if you've gone to groups before, I like to think about what kind of feeling do you want when you get there and when you leave.
Barbara: And there are some where you get in and you can be completely invisible. No one's says hello and you leave and it's, it's okay, but it's not the same as if you walk into an NSA Carolinas event. and all of these people are, you know, talking to you, wanting to know how you're doing. People are cheering. Or like with Social [00:51:00] Media Club Chicago, I had to rescue a friend because he was in the corner being cornered by five people who are trying to get him to sign up for Twitter
Barbara: And he was like, help me, help me. I go, what's going on? And they're like, he won't sign up for Twitter. I'm like, you guys, come on, come on. You know. So ,
Jordan: uh, why is there no social media club c?
Barbara: There is Oh, okay. In social media, Charlotte, they're not part of global and I was at one of their events last week.
Barbara: I've spoken, uh, on storytelling for social media, Charlotte. So the event last week was on influencer marketing and uh, they had a couple of influencers on the panel. If you look at my LinkedIn profile, I have the takeaways.
Jordan: I, I think I saw your picture of the, of the influencers sitting in their chairs.
Jordan: Yeah. Yeah.
Barbara: With the, I was trying, I didn't get a very good picture and then this is what I did. You can do this too. You can borrow other people's content. Mm-hmm. . So I noticed that social media, Charlotte had a story with all the panelists and their, um, Instagram profile IDs, their ads. Over their [00:52:00] heads. So I did a screen cap of that and I used it and they, they were okay with that.
Barbara: I didn't ask 'em, I should have . I knew they wouldn't care, and if they didn't like it, they could just say, Hey, take that down. But I thought it was important because then that way you know where to follow these people. Yeah. And if right there in the picture. So that
Jordan: was, were those all local, uh, influencers?
Jordan: Yeah. That's pretty cool. Yeah, it was fun. How do you, we, I keep going back, but you said, um, , the one thing that businesses struggle with is the, the, the budget around marketing. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. What's the, if I'm limited mm-hmm. , where should I be putting money right now? And, and really that's vague, but,
Barbara: well, it is, and we should also talk about time.
Barbara: Is that okay? . Yeah. Okay. Because you know, sometimes it's, if you spend a couple hundred that's better than you spend in three days, you know? So, um, I think what you have to, first of all is make a decision that marketing is important. And what I'm [00:53:00] seeing now is even though we don't have any major signs that say that we're gonna be having a terrible recession next year, everything I'm seeing says if we do have one, it's gonna be mild and it's not gonna last long.
Barbara: So yes, prices are a little bit high. I know that. . But, um, is it time to say, oh, we're gonna let go of people are we're gonna slash our marketing budget? I don't think so. Neil Patel just came out with a report this morning that shows how much more people are gonna be spending on marketing in 2023. So if you are not spending money on marketing, guess what your competitors will be.
Barbara: Mm-hmm. . So what you have to decide. , you can go a couple different ways. You can work with a consultant, you can outsource it. You can bring someone in either part-time or full-time. I've had clients do that to, uh, varied effects. You know, it depends on who you get. Sometimes it's great, but you know, it's a, it's a special skillset that keeps, it's like a moving target.
Barbara: It's like one week you're asking 'em to play World Cup Soccer. The next week it's gonna be the [00:54:00] Super Bowl, and then after that it's gonna be the final four. So you've gotta have somebody who can really move around. So, as far as an exact number, I'm not sure what that is, but what I can tell you is, one thing you could look at too is public relations.
Barbara: And we do a lot of that. , it's SEO driven, so when people are searching, you pop to the top within half an hour of doing that press release. So there's not a long way you're there. And if you do that enough, you do own the market because a couple things happen. It's not just search people who are looking start saying, oh, this company is serious.
Barbara: They've got some press releases, and if you get coverage, in the local publications and all of a sudden they're like, wow, if, and it's not something that people sit there and, you know, it's not like they have a scorecard and they're like, oh, then I'm gonna give them a hundred points for that. It's not like that, but it's just a feeling that they get that, okay, they're important and they have news.
Barbara: Do the other companies have news? Yes. Are they promoting it? No. You know, so really how do you stand out as a promoter? The other thing I would [00:55:00] say is video, video, video. Um, I'm doing a, a webinar this week on video transfer 2023. Just, you know, you gotta be on video. I, I'm kind of. Back and forth on TikTok. I think it's important, but I think we have six states that are considering suing TikTok.
Barbara: I don't think that it's gonna be pulled at any time, but you never know. So, um, it's easy entry, but, and you can get a lot of views, but where do they go? So YouTube is probably a better place if you wanna do video. and if you have a website, that's great. Newsletter is great. Text marketing is really what I would look at.
Barbara: You can do text marketing for as little as 20 bucks a month. You have to have people subscribe, of course. But um, if you can send out. Some information. I don't know if you have a special or year round and probably taking a step back, the biggest thing you can do for success is to take time planning and have a content calendar so you're not like waking up in the middle of the night.
Barbara: You probably don't do this, Jordan, but should [00:56:00] I post this ? You know, you want to have a flow. and even if it's just, you know what? My content calendar is gonna be celebrating everything that's going on in my town in 2023. Just get those events and put 'em down, you know? So, um, I think really strategies where I would spend my time and money and then I would look at tactics and keep them simple.
Barbara: I know I just looked at some stats that say the average person is on 7.2. I don't know where the 0.2 comes in. Social media platforms don't do. You know, Google my business. Uh, Facebook is still big. Even though people say, uh, the younger folks are leaving it. I get that. Uh, Instagram is good, you know, and form partnerships.
Barbara: So if there's a, a group of people who are doing a great job on social media, hop in with them. See if you can interview each other or take over each other's channels. There's a lot of things you can do without spending a fortune. And the last thing I'll say is if you don't know what to do, give me a call.
Barbara: Because and I do [00:57:00] consulting. So I, I, one of the things that really got me into the Fortune 50 was I went in and they'd never worked with anyone who looked at budgets. And I came back and I was astounded. I said, did you know that you're paying $86,000 for the stock photo of an old telephone? And they're like, what?
Barbara: What's that picture of? And I showed 'em. They're like, why are we using that? And I said, I don't know, but you're paying for it. So, um, I, I have, uh, thank you letters for all the money. I was able to save them. So it's just, yeah, I like to have people, I like people that have priorities with time, money, and results.
Jordan: I can't thank you enough because, and I feel like I could probably dive into an hour long conversation about like eight different things that you touched on. Um, how can people find.
Barbara: Well, I have a Hungarian last name. It's Raz Goni, so you can look up Barbara. B a r b a r a r o z g o n y [00:58:00] i. I'm on LinkedIn and Instagram there.
Barbara: My blog is easier. It's Wired. P r works, so that's W I R E D P R works.com. So you can find me on Instagram, LinkedIn. Uh, I am on TikTok not posting that much there, YouTube. Uh, so just everywhere you are in social, I'll be there too.
Jordan: Um, keep me posted on your mastermind. Will do, yeah. And, uh, stay in touch.
Jordan: Okay. I'm probably gonna invite you back because I, I like chatting with you. Uh, thank you. But if there's anything I can do for you, let me know. Um, but again, just appreciate you taking some time.
Barbara: Well, thank you for having me on and I wish everyone a, a fantastic business experience with your marketing.
Barbara: Marketing is more than ex an expense. It's really a way to connect with your customers, grow your business, and really make lives better all the way around. So thank you for having me, Jordan. Absolutely.[00:59:00]